Master the Art of Public Speaking and Storytelling with Johanna Walker

down here and hang out with us in the studio.

Mark: That's right. Educate us on speaking.

Jeff: Johanna, I know you're a public speaking expert, but I don't want to do you a disservice. Go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience, give us a little bit of your background, and talk to us about how your expertise could lend itself well to those who are speaking at fundraising events.

Johanna: I come from a theater background. The long story is I was an incredibly quiet girl. I didn't speak. I would go for days without speaking. And it was really through storytelling. I could always tell a story. I was terrified to raise my hand in school, but I could always tell a story. It was through telling stories that I got connected to my own voice and my own power.

Johanna: Then I started working with women in jail and adolescent girls, helping them tell their stories, and later on working with nonprofit leaders and entrepreneurs and CEOs. And discovering that across the board, we've all got stories to tell and we've all got parts of our voices that we've sort of kept on the back burner. And those are the stories and the parts of our voices that really connect us to our humanity.

Johanna: When you're on stage speaking about something you're passionate about and some world-changing idea or mission, when you're connected to your humanity and you can help other people connect to theirs -- that's what we all want. We want to be connected to something bigger than ourselves and to one another. You want to have an impact. So I help people bring more of their humanity to the stage through speaking and telling great stories.

Jeff: That's awesome. We've had podcast episodes before where we've really talked about the power of storytelling as it relates to getting across the mission of an organization and what they're trying to do and get people on board -- not just from an emotional standpoint, but obviously a financial one as well.

Jeff: In terms of your coaching, let's talk about what you could bring to the table for some of our audience. It's not something that most people running the fundraiser -- whether you're the executive director or a board member -- do as their day job. So how can our audience learn for this one event where they're doing a 25 to 30-minute speech? How can you help them, or what kind of resources can they go to? Do you do coaching sessions like that?

Johanna: Yeah, I do coaching sessions. I help people get clear about what stories they want to tell. Which means: who are the people, the humans, that are being impacted by your work? People get so hung up in data and statistics, which is powerful and important and necessary, but when you can tie those to the actual story of a human being that has been impacted by this work -- a single person, because the data is all about people and people's lives ultimately -- when you tell a story, then you draw the line from the stats, the data, the numbers to an actual human person who's been impacted. When you can find those stories, that's what moves your audience to say, "I want to be part of this. I want to get on this train and be part of this project."

Mark: This seems like something that would tie to what you guys do -- the power of story in a video or something like that? Because I've been to a lot of events where there's either no video or any type of content in that space, or it's very poorly done. And a lot of times I feel like, if they could just tell this story better or show the people they're impacting and communicate about it, they could raise way more money or get more people passionate about what they're doing.

Mark: What do you think it is? Why don't people see this? We all connect with story. We all want to be the heroes of our own story. But what is it that when someone starts to put together an event, they miss this whole point of telling a story?

Johanna: It's a great question because stories are all the rage these days. Everybody's talking about stories -- tell more stories, it's all about the story. But the truth is that most people don't really know how to tell a story. So they avoid it, or they kind of get lost on the back roads and lose their audiences.

Johanna: But also, when it comes down to it, people think it's fluff. They think, "No, my people really need to hear the bottom line. They need to get the numbers. They really need to hear the stats." People still get stuck thinking stories are fluff. But what I always tell people: the less you say, the more they'll hear.

Johanna: Rather than delivering an onslaught of information -- info, info, data, data, numbers, numbers -- it overwhelms your audience. They don't remember half of it. They feel overwhelmed and they don't know what to do with it. But when you take them on a journey, you're really taking your audience on a journey. You're asking: where are they when they walk into the room? Where do you want them to be when they walk out? And how are you going to get them there? You're crafting a journey for your audience.

Jeff: I'll go back through my own experience at fundraising events. We built fundraising software and I'd like to say that we have some expertise in fundraisers, but we're all learners too. Over the years, there was a lot of that data. My daughter has a rare disorder -- Prader-Willi Syndrome. So we used to tell people, "Here's how many kids are born a year in the United States with it," or "Here's how many people are born in the state of Colorado annually with it." And you start to kind of put these stats together, but they don't really do much.

Jeff: They might frame the problem in terms of how big it is, but the people in the audience want to know: how can I help? I need to connect with something that I can help. So okay, there's three to five kids a year born in Colorado. I can't connect with that. So we started telling the stories of how the various things we were doing were impacting the lives of the people we were serving.

Jeff: For example, when you're talking about adults with this disorder and long-term care -- let me explain to you what a day in the life is of an adult with this disorder and the challenges they run into and the struggle they have with the services available in the state. You start to describe these things and you're telling this story. And all of a sudden, people are like, "I want to help you solve that problem because I want to help Abby or I want to help Jen or Zach." They've now personalized it because we personalized it.

Mark: I think that works. So what do you think the framework is? Say everyone can't afford to hire a company like Brand Viva to make a really nice video for them. What other formats are there? From the stage, if you're just going to use your words and communicate, is there a particular formula or structure? Beginning, middle, and end -- this is how I should structure my story. And like you said, you want to lead people to take them where you want them to end up by the end of your event.

Johanna: Really simplified: there's beginning, middle, and end. There's the ordinary world, the problem -- what's not working? The normal world, the day-to-day, "I go about my business and I'm doing this and I'm a little bit stuck or something's not working." Here's my struggle.

Johanna: And then boom -- there's an explosion. Something happens. One day something different happens and that takes you down a different path. Sometimes that's an accident. Sometimes it's a decision -- "I've got to get out of this boring world and create something new." But there's a moment where something changes, where something happens and you go down a different path.

Johanna: And then there's the after. What happens as a result of that moment? What changes? What becomes possible? What's the new world, the new vision, the new possibility because of that change?

Jeff: What's the disconnect? You can look at it both ways. There's a definitive event that happens and we get knocked off course. So either the plan is to get us back on course or the plan is to reestablish a norm in that new direction.

Jeff: As a father of somebody with a disorder, all parents kind of start in the beginning saying, "We got knocked off course, we need to get back on course." Eventually, in most cases I've seen, that's not the intent. The intent is to say we now need to live on this new norm. This isn't changing. So how can you help us get there? How do you help organizations, families, get to that new norm?

Jeff: It doesn't have to be about medical disorders. It can be about a variety of things. But in a lot of cases, the world is broken, and a lot of our clients are out there trying to allow people to compensate for it and cope.

Johanna: I think there are a couple of significant moments. There's the moment that throws you off course. But then there's the moment that throws you on a new course. And that's where the nonprofit steps in. It's that moment where this new idea, this helper, comes along and carries you in a new direction. Those are two really significant moments. Like Donald Miller says, "Along came a guide."

Mark: Along came a guide. Because everyone wants to be the hero of their own story. How can you be the guide to help someone become the hero of their story? Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Jeff: I've been to a number of events recently, and one that I went to -- they kind of missed the mark on the story part. They were dealing with at-risk youth in Colorado high schools, and rather than telling the story of Jenny or Susan or Chris and what they're going through in high school and how the organization is helping them cope, it was: "We've got 23 high schools. We're in six of them. We need to be in all of them. Here's how much money it costs. Give us some money." It wasn't getting there with that.

Johanna: I'm working with a woman who's building a new nonprofit, working with formerly incarcerated citizens, helping them get back on their feet and talking about the rate of recidivism. She came to me with really powerful statistics, but when she brought her talk to me at first, I didn't feel anything. I got it intellectually, but I didn't feel anything.

Johanna: Then when we got into the story of Jenny -- who had an apartment but couldn't live in it with three children and ended up going back to her illegal way of making money so that she could pay her housing -- the whole story of the complexity of the system, and then she has a way forward. Then it's like, "I feel something for Jenny. I want to help Jenny get a place so that she can have her kids." That is totally different than piling on a lot of numbers.

Jeff: Take me to an actual person. But I think you also want to think about all the different mechanics around this. It does come back to creating that narrative and being able to communicate it -- not just in a four to five-minute video, but to get up on stage and do the same thing.

Jeff: Sometimes, even if we have the narrative down, the storyteller still has to have some skills or at least needs coaching. Because we're not all innately great storytellers. You always envy the person that has people around them telling a story about this past weekend, and you're drawn to them. You're like, "How are you able to command this audience?"

Johanna: I work with people on getting connected to their bodies and their voices. As speakers, we're standing on stage, you've got this room full of people, and nerves might be racing through your body. You're losing your breath, your knees are wobbling, you feel like you want to throw up. Or maybe it's not that extreme -- your mouth is dry, your voice is a little shaky.

Johanna: What I help people do is turn all of that energy -- because that's energy. It's energy and vibration, and your voice is vibration. Your voice is your expression of your human truth. All that nervous energy is powerful energy. I help them take that energy and channel it, use it. That's actually your battery pack. What most people do is try to stuff it down, tuck it in. And what they're doing is tucking in all their power. What we really want to do is take all that nervous energy and use it. Turn it into your power.

Jeff: If you're telling a story, you should be able to just tell the story. You don't need the teleprompter. You don't need the speech written out. If you can connect with it at that level, I kind of feel like that's the way to go. What do you think?

Mark: I think it's hard because sometimes without a teleprompter, you can't connect on all the points you want to share. Most presidential addresses are via teleprompter.

Johanna: Practicing is key. I hosted a story slam in Boulder for 10 years -- competitive storytelling where you tell a five-minute story. You have to practice because it's hard to tell a story that fits into five minutes. When I'm working on a story, I tell it over and over again in the shower, riding my bicycle, and hone it as I'm working on it. So I don't need a teleprompter, but it's also not memorized. It's just in my bones. It's in my skin and I know how to tell it. And then I really connect to the story as I'm telling it because I've practiced.

Mark: I've really tried to do a lot more networking events and different types of things so that I can get used to saying what I do. I started to learn that when I said certain things, I could see someone's eyes light up or get curious. And then I'd think, "I need to remember to lead with that next time."

Mark: For Brand Viva, I used to say, "We're a video production company that also does podcasting." And then I started saying, "We're a podcasting agency that does video content." When I led with podcasting, people were like, "Oh, interesting," and they'd want to know more.

Jeff: That's the same thing with Handbid. What is Handbid? We are an auction software company for charities and commercial businesses. But that's what we are. What we do is help people realize their fundraising goals or their revenue goals, or help guests have a better experience. We always try to talk about the areas that people can connect with. When people get up on stage and talk about their charity, that's where the facts can get in the way of the connection. You start telling the story of what you do -- "We put dogs in homes" or "We help people prepare for life past prison" -- that's where people can say, "Wow, that's awesome."

Jeff: Part of it is the delivery, and then you have the substance of the story, and you've got to put it all together and do it in five minutes. I wish more people at charity events would only speak for five minutes. It's the worst when you bring friends to an event and the speaker goes on too long and your friends are like, "I've got to go."

Johanna: The difference between a good speaker and a great speaker is a thousand speeches. But if you're doing a thousand speeches and you're practicing your unconscious habits, that's what you're going to get good at. Practice is what makes you a better speaker, but you have to be practicing with intention. And often that means getting out of your comfort zone.

Johanna: When I work with people, they'll say, "But that doesn't feel natural, it doesn't feel like me." But really what they're saying is that's outside of their comfort zone.

Mark: That's where you need the alter ego. Have you read that book?

Johanna: I haven't, but I know that Beyonce says whenever she goes on stage she channels Sasha Fierce.

Mark: The book basically says you have to identify the person that you need or want to be in the moment. And then become that. It's like Clark Kent and Superman.

Jeff: I have seen people that get up on stage and have this dynamic personality -- they're engaging, they're amazing communicators. And then you meet them off stage and you can't have a conversation with them. This pastor at a church I went to in Wheat Ridge for years would literally run off stage, get on his motorcycle, and take off before anybody could see him. But he's an amazing speaker. I always wanted to channel some of that. The person who can get emotional on stage, who goes up and down the aisle throwing their arms up and down and getting people riled up. I think that intimidates some people because they feel like they can never do that.

Johanna: As somebody who was painfully shy for years and years, somehow being on stage was not scary for me. That was a place where I had permission to speak. Everybody had agreed, "Okay, now it's your turn, we're going to listen to you." And boom, I come alive. But then offstage, I'm terrified. I'm running to the bathroom to hide.

Johanna: Thankfully, I've worked through some of that. But for a long time, on stage was where I felt a lot more comfortable. I don't know if it's about an alter ego, but it is about being more yourself. The more you can bring your quirky, neurotic, unique idiosyncrasies to the stage and have fun being you in all of your imperfect glory, that's actually what invites people in. People work too hard to be somebody else.

Jeff: Did you train people -- can people learn how to get rid of those inhibitions?

Johanna: Absolutely. Without alcohol. Way better than alcohol. I've been to plenty of fundraising events and seen the executive director throwing a few down before they had to get on stage.

Jeff: What are some things that you can do?

Johanna: I do a program called Speakers Playground. I talk about coming in through the front door and the back door. The front door is public speaking 101 -- what do you do with your hands, your feet, vocal dynamics, eye focus. Those are the kinds of things you think about when you think about public speaking.

Johanna: Coming in through the back door is improvisation and play and being goofy and ridiculous and taking up space in potentially uncomfortable ways. You're getting out of your normal range. Most of us have a very narrow range of expression. When we expand that in a playful, potentially ridiculous way, it just makes it bigger. So then we have more access to more of our expressive possibility.

Johanna: It can be profoundly uncomfortable for people. But when you're in a room full of people who are all getting slightly uncomfortable, it's super fun and transformative. People are like, "Oh, here I am. That's me. I actually get to be like that too." So it just opens the door to more range and more possibility. And then when you're in a more high-stakes situation, you've worked that muscle.

Mark: What you said earlier -- that a lot of us try to push down or repress that nervous energy, and you said, "Let it out." What are some things -- do you do jumping jacks before you go on stage? What's the practice?

Johanna: There are a couple different things. One is our mind. The most powerful story you can tell is the one you tell yourself about who you are and who you get to be in the world. So one is just changing that story.

Johanna: "You're going to love this." That's what I always say before I get on stage. "You're going to love this." And also, "This is not about me." We get so hung up in "Am I going to get it right? What are they going to think about me?" But it's not about you. It's about the person whose life is going to be changed because of what you say, because you're willing to get up there and speak. So that's one layer -- working on the mind.

Johanna: And then the energy. A lot of it is through breath and the vibration of your voice. Your voice is your expression of your human truth. Your voice is vibration. Tension is an enemy to vibration. Any tension in your body is limiting your expression of your human truth. So we want to release the tension.

Johanna: Then it's taking all of that energy -- when my body is shaking, I take that energy and put it into my voice. That's using the vibration to actually make my voice more powerful and more focused and more direct and more impactful. Because all of that energy is now focused in my voice. My voice is vibrating and my whole body is vibrating with it. And I am delivering my message.

Jeff: I'm sold. Here's a thousand bucks. What you just communicated there was confidence. And confidence sells.

Johanna: What I was doing was actually grounding it. I was taking any nervous energy and turning it into physical power through my voice and my breath. So sometimes confidence doesn't come first. Confidence comes second. First, in spite of the nerves that might be racing, I get my body on board. I get my body in the room. I physicalize confidence, and then I actually feel it.

Mark: I'm thinking, even for fundraising or donor calls -- a lot of people hate picking up the phone. Before you make that phone call, recognizing "I'm nervous to talk to somebody I've never talked to before" and trying to channel that energy into the conversation. It's not just for the public stage, it's anytime.

Johanna: Anytime. And it's also getting your attention to the other person. Not just about you, but really dialing into that connection. When you're on stage speaking to a roomful of people, the more connected you are to yourself, the more you feel that the audience is with you.

Jeff: Are you someone that likes to move around when you talk, or do you kind of stand in one place? Is that really up to the person?

Johanna: It depends. In Speakers Playground, a lot of times I get people to nail their feet to the ground and take that nervous energy -- because a lot of moving is nervous moving. It's not intentional moving. You're on stage kind of busy, and your energy is buzzing in a lot of different directions.

Johanna: When you plant your feet on two feet and focus your energy on delivering in a more singular focused line to your audience, that's powerful. And that's practicing a muscle. It doesn't mean don't move on stage, but it's grounding and practicing that focus. It's another way of channeling all that nervous energy in one direction towards your audience.

Johanna: Once you really know how to do that, then there's more space for moving around the stage because you've got a body and you get to be physical. But then you move with more intention. You're actually guiding your audience, telling them what to focus on, showing them what to focus on by where you move your body. When you're shifting an idea, when you want to change the mood of your talk, you shift the energy of the room. Your movement on stage becomes very intentional rather than just racing around because you're nervous.

Jeff: I've seen people who have done this a while and they move very well, and then I've seen people who really just kind of shuffle. What about visual things? Do you think those help tell the story -- images on the screen or props or something?

Johanna: One of the things I always say about stories is that stories are co-creative. I'm telling you the story of what happened at the airport this morning. And you have an association with airports. So whatever story I'm telling, there are doorways where my audience can enter. They have images and associations and memories that they're bringing to the story that create meaning.

Johanna: That's actually where the connection happens and what makes the story meaningful for them. And sometimes if you're giving all the images, it's actually interrupting the co-creation. That's why the book is always better than the movie -- because with the book, you created what this looks like. Then you see the movie and you're like, "I would have never cast him in that role."

Johanna: That's part of the magic of telling stories -- the co-creation that's happening. When you can be intentional about the doorways -- everybody's going to find different doorways into your story -- but that's part of what makes the story meaningful, because the listener is bringing their own associations. Sometimes images can enhance a story, but I always encourage people to let the story speak for itself.

Jeff: I'm thinking through the various fundraising events I've been to. I really do think if you could narrate a story effectively, some of the stuff they've shown on stage is just not needed. But I think also, saying to yourself upfront, "Here's my audience and what parts of my story could connect with them" is an important element.

Jeff: I think about it for my own charity. We're talking about what it's like to raise a child with a disorder. So I've got a lot of parents in the audience and they're going to connect at that level. One of the powerful things about the story is that as a parent, I remember the feeling -- "Is everything okay with my baby? Do they have 10 fingers and 10 toes?" And then we're told that things aren't normal. That's our greatest fear as a parent. But you connect with that because you're a parent.

Jeff: I love what you're saying: understand your audience and what areas they're going to connect with. If I'm in a room of cat lovers, talking about saving dogs is probably not going to connect with them. So a huge takeaway for me is starting to figure out: for the people in my audience who aren't parents, how am I going to connect with them? What other areas are they going to be able to insert themselves into my story?

Johanna: It's finding the universal themes. There are the specificities that some people are going to connect to, but through the specificity is the universal.

Mark: What does Donald Miller call that? The extrinsic thing. Like, "It shouldn't have to be this way."

Johanna: That's exactly what it is. You shouldn't have to do this. You deserve better.

Johanna: I gave a talk several years ago when I was first starting my business. I was invited to speak on how I walk the edge. My talk was about my story of not having children. This was very personal to me. The morning of the talk, I was trying to figure out how to get out of it. I was utterly terrified. I was coming up with excuses and trying to figure out how to cancel.

Johanna: I ended up doing it. So many people spoke to me afterwards and said, "Thank you for sharing your story." Parents and non-parents alike. For many people who are not parents, they were able to say, "This helped me communicate with my family. This helped me want to tell my story." So I got that message even deeper -- it's not about you. It's about the person who's going to be impacted.

Johanna: So many people connected to that story and said, "That makes me want to tell my story," or found different doorways in. We can't always know ahead of time who's going to connect where. It's also a mystery. But the more truthful you can be, the bigger opportunity you have to connect with someone.

Jeff: In the fundraising space, I think again, just to wrap up: I've got a captive audience. They're coming to this event. In most cases, they paid a decent amount of money to be there. And now I have the entire event to lay in the story, but I'm going to have a captive moment where the entire audience is listening to me, and I've got to be really impactful. So I've got to practice it, but I also have to figure out what elements of my story are likely to connect with my audience and how to emphasize those. And to your point, maybe minimize the visuals and let them illustrate in their heads what it is they're connecting with. Am I getting that right?

Johanna: I think so. And then let them create those synapses, those connections.

Mark: Being prepared is another good thing. Like you said, practice. So many people, I know for myself, I'm comfortable being on stage and I don't have a problem getting in front. So sometimes I wing it. I can wing it. But you could probably capture more and be more impactful if you're a little bit more prepared.

Johanna: And it's intentional practice. I always say practice makes better. We're not going for perfect. Practice makes better, but better practice makes change. It's really about how are you practicing? Getting out of your habitual ruts that work to a certain extent and have become habitual because they're working. It can be so uncomfortable to break those habits. That's what practice means -- practicing what's outside of your habit. And that is what expands your range.

Johanna: When your range expands, it really starts to serve you. If you're just practicing your habits, you're going to get really good at habits you're already really good at. Intentional practice is what really makes a difference.

Jeff: How do these people who are brave enough to get up on stage and talk about their cause at an event get feedback? Because here's what happens: "You did a great job, Mark. Thank you so much. You were awesome." But were you?

Johanna: Two things. One, you can find somebody in your audience who is a trusted colleague in your space and ask them for honest feedback. Always start with what went really well, and then what's something I could have done better. Whenever possible, I try to ask somebody in the audience that I know for some feedback, what worked and what didn't. That's what's going to allow me to grow and have that reflection.

Johanna: But also, practicing doesn't mean doing a lot of speeches in front of people who need to hear them. Practicing means getting feedback in lower-stakes situations -- with a coach, with a group of people who are also practicing. So it's trying stuff and taking some risks and playing and figuring stuff out with people that will give you candid feedback.

Jeff: Thankfully, my wife does. She's Italian. She's never held back. She's like, "You're okay." I didn't see you get up on stage and talk to 450 people.

Jeff: So it does take some guts. And definitely applaud you for helping people get better at this.

Johanna: It's so fun. Because people -- even people who are already out there speaking and fear isn't so much their issue -- wherever somebody is on their speaking journey, they want to go someplace else. It's really fun to take them to that next place and shepherd them to that next place. For most people that's a little uncomfortable. And helping them befriend that discomfort and step into that power is really thrilling for me.

Johanna: Because then they get to do the work they want to do in the world. They get to have the impact, they get to change the world in the way that they want to. Especially with nonprofit leaders -- these people are here because they want to change the world. They're visionaries. They want to have an impact. And when they can step into their power in a more authentic way, it's amazing what can happen.

Jeff: It takes effort and practice for sure. And maybe a little coaching.

Jeff: Johanna, if they'd like to hire you or send in their video of their last speech and get your feedback, how do they get a hold of you?

Johanna: Probably the best place is on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. I'd love to connect there. If you find me on LinkedIn and reach out, I like to know where you found me and how we connected. I'm always happy to jump on a call. Johanna Walker Speaking is my LinkedIn profile.

Johanna: I'm happy to share an assessment. I talk about authenticity, relatability, and clarity -- ARC. The arc of the story. Authenticity, relatability, and clarity is what makes a good story. I have an ARC assessment that really lays out what does it take, how do I assess whether I'm really pulling off authenticity, relatability, and clarity. It's a great way to put your story through a story assessment, and I'm happy to share.

Jeff: Love it. Mark, should we get an assessment?

Mark: Maybe. He and I were emcees together for my event and it was funny. We did a whole script and I'm as much of a wing-it guy as he is. And then we're reading the script and looking at each other and just threw the script away. We're just going to wing it. I'm not suggesting that was a good idea. Thankfully, I can sing, so I can fill any awkward time with some songs.

Jeff: That's right. When Jeff forgot his line, Mark's just going to sing. Sometimes those can get cheesy. And sometimes on purpose.

Jeff: All right, this has been awesome. It's been a great public speaking exercise. We're going to try this with a bigger audience next time. So Johanna, thank you so much for coming.

Johanna: You're so welcome. You're so fun to talk to. Thanks for braving the Denver traffic.

Jeff: Drive safe on your way up north. As we close this podcast out, thank you for listening to our show. And until next time, happy fundraising.

Jeff: If you enjoyed our show, please take a moment to leave us a review. You can find us on Apple, Google, and Spotify. Don't forget to subscribe for more great content. And if you're a fan of video, check us out on YouTube. Until next time, happy fundraising.